cliff situation but both sides appear to be very far apart still. >> it should be no substitute for our passing a middle income tax cut now. >> there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the same people pay more, more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates. >> they will lose completely by the end of the year their benefits. this is the real cliff. martha: all right. we're joined now by chris wallace, anchor of "fox news sunday". chris, good morning. good to see you. a lot of hubbub today about the fact that john boehner and the president are going to sit down one-on-one. there is a lot of optimism i heard from many circles this morning that this means something is going to happen, that something will get done. should we believe that? >> well i wouldn't be that optimistic. i have a memory at least as long as august of 2011 when the two them sat down together and were negotiating the debt debacle. that didn't go so well. martha: no, it did in the. >> it completely fell apart. it is good they're talking rather than not talking but certainly